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	<title>Comments on: Say what you like, the HIG are still relevant</title>
	<link>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/</link>
	<description>Despotic Development</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
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		<title>By: The Daydream Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Searching for the HIG's Boson</title>
		<link>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-15291</link>
		<dc:creator>The Daydream Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Searching for the HIG's Boson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-15291</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] course there are many that feel that the HIG is far from dead, or that for some it is still necessary. In many ways they are correct. Large sections of the HIG [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] course there are many that feel that the HIG is far from dead, or that for some it is still necessary. In many ways they are correct. Large sections of the HIG [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Now this is hot Cocoa &#8250; Vacuous Virtuoso</title>
		<link>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-6368</link>
		<dc:creator>Now this is hot Cocoa &#8250; Vacuous Virtuoso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-6368</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Although there is still some talk about the HIG, usability, eye candy and so on, the controversy phase is mostly over. Speaking of which, you can call me what you like, but I think the HIG is definitely not dead. Outdated perhaps, but there needs to be a standard. There are many aspects to the existing HIG that developers need to follow in order to make the Mac experience enjoyable. I&#8217;ll talk about this in detail later. Update: My rant about the HIG.&#160;&#8617; [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Although there is still some talk about the HIG, usability, eye candy and so on, the controversy phase is mostly over. Speaking of which, you can call me what you like, but I think the HIG is definitely not dead. Outdated perhaps, but there needs to be a standard. There are many aspects to the existing HIG that developers need to follow in order to make the Mac experience enjoyable. I&#8217;ll talk about this in detail later. Update: My rant about the HIG.&#160;&#8617; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastiaan</title>
		<link>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5808</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastiaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5808</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Great write-up. I've heard a lot of people just blatantly dismissing the HIG, but those little things (like the ellipsis, or it's obvious advantages to users) are good to press people on the heart. I think we'll see a new HIG, although Leopard will be a stretch. We'll see...&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great write-up. I&#8217;ve heard a lot of people just blatantly dismissing the HIG, but those little things (like the ellipsis, or it&#8217;s obvious advantages to users) are good to press people on the heart. I think we&#8217;ll see a new HIG, although Leopard will be a stretch. We&#8217;ll see&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John Casasanta</title>
		<link>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5644</link>
		<dc:creator>John Casasanta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5644</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is a great post. It sums up some of the misconceptions that too many people have these days regarding UI "consistency" and such.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My favorite line is, "Have you even read the HIG?" It's very relevant because I suspect that many of the so-called "experts" that spout off on it have barely even made an attempt to.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great post. It sums up some of the misconceptions that too many people have these days regarding UI &#8220;consistency&#8221; and such.</p>
<p>My favorite line is, &#8220;Have you even read the HIG?&#8221; It&#8217;s very relevant because I suspect that many of the so-called &#8220;experts&#8221; that spout off on it have barely even made an attempt to.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5508</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5508</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Personally I think Apple need to conform to the HIG much more than they do. GarageBand is a particular example, launch it and you're subjected to three (THREE!) window styles - in one app!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;First you get a "new metal" busy wondow (with an ALL metal look - unlike other apps which have a metal title bar only). Next an open file dialog in "classic Aqua", finally a weird GarageBand "plastic and wood" window! It is horrid, if you're doing other things you can end up looking at the "open dialog" wondering 'what app is that for?' because it doesn't look like GarageBand.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And don't even get me started on Finder's "switch state windows"!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As for the "floating black glass pallette" it only makes sense when the app is normally run "full screen", and why they aren't "white glass" I can't imagine (that would look more like normal Aqua stuff).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Perhaps Leopard will be better.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally I think Apple need to conform to the HIG much more than they do. GarageBand is a particular example, launch it and you&#8217;re subjected to three (THREE!) window styles - in one app!</p>
<p>First you get a &#8220;new metal&#8221; busy wondow (with an ALL metal look - unlike other apps which have a metal title bar only). Next an open file dialog in &#8220;classic Aqua&#8221;, finally a weird GarageBand &#8220;plastic and wood&#8221; window! It is horrid, if you&#8217;re doing other things you can end up looking at the &#8220;open dialog&#8221; wondering &#8216;what app is that for?&#8217; because it doesn&#8217;t look like GarageBand.</p>
<p>And don&#8217;t even get me started on Finder&#8217;s &#8220;switch state windows&#8221;!</p>
<p>As for the &#8220;floating black glass pallette&#8221; it only makes sense when the app is normally run &#8220;full screen&#8221;, and why they aren&#8217;t &#8220;white glass&#8221; I can&#8217;t imagine (that would look more like normal Aqua stuff).</p>
<p>Perhaps Leopard will be better.</p>
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		<title>By: Mudi</title>
		<link>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5434</link>
		<dc:creator>Mudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5434</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good points.
I think a lot of developers feel that their applications won't have success without an "iTunes look". I don't know if it's good or bad, but boring...&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points.<br />
I think a lot of developers feel that their applications won&#8217;t have success without an &#8220;iTunes look&#8221;. I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s good or bad, but boring&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ankur</title>
		<link>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5403</link>
		<dc:creator>Ankur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5403</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It's quite understandable if you find reading the HIG boring, but it's subtleties like having an ellipsis ("...") at the end of menu items that require further action by the user in the form of a dialog or move the focus to a different application that help make it consistent.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;One of my pet peeves is when people have dialogs with a default button defined, but no cancel. I've recently written to the 1Passwd developers about this as it's inconsistent and makes it hard to issue a dismissal, whereas most dialogs, such as the "Shut Down" dialog in OS X have a default button that you activate by pressing enter, and a cancel button that is activated by pressing the space bar or escape.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It may be boring, but it's the little inconsistencies that can add up to ruin a user experience.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;And how much is Apple violating at the moment? One paragraph or so about the color of the windows? What’s the problem?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Absolutely. That's exactly the point that motivated me to write this article in the first place.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s quite understandable if you find reading the HIG boring, but it&#8217;s subtleties like having an ellipsis (&#8221;&#8230;&#8221;) at the end of menu items that require further action by the user in the form of a dialog or move the focus to a different application that help make it consistent.</p>
<p>One of my pet peeves is when people have dialogs with a default button defined, but no cancel. I&#8217;ve recently written to the 1Passwd developers about this as it&#8217;s inconsistent and makes it hard to issue a dismissal, whereas most dialogs, such as the &#8220;Shut Down&#8221; dialog in OS X have a default button that you activate by pressing enter, and a cancel button that is activated by pressing the space bar or escape.</p>
<p>It may be boring, but it&#8217;s the little inconsistencies that can add up to ruin a user experience.</p>
<blockquote><p>And how much is Apple violating at the moment? One paragraph or so about the color of the windows? What’s the problem?</p></blockquote>
<p>Absolutely. That&#8217;s exactly the point that motivated me to write this article in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: sphynx</title>
		<link>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5401</link>
		<dc:creator>sphynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5401</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I just tried to read the HIG (and I'm sort of a developer), but man that's boring... Most of it you already know if you have some common sense and used Mac OS X for like a week. For example:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Moving the mouse without pressing the mouse button moves the cursor, or pointer.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you didn't know that, how are you ever going to even start XCode?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And how much is Apple violating at the moment? One paragraph or so about the color of the windows? What's the problem?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just tried to read the HIG (and I&#8217;m sort of a developer), but man that&#8217;s boring&#8230; Most of it you already know if you have some common sense and used Mac OS X for like a week. For example:</p>
<blockquote><p>Moving the mouse without pressing the mouse button moves the cursor, or pointer.</p></blockquote>
<p>If you didn&#8217;t know that, how are you ever going to even start XCode?</p>
<p>And how much is Apple violating at the moment? One paragraph or so about the color of the windows? What&#8217;s the problem?</p>
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		<title>By: matt g</title>
		<link>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5396</link>
		<dc:creator>matt g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5396</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Personally I love the combination of Aqua, brushed metal, plastic and custom (garageband etc) that we have currently - it makes expose far more usable - no braille scrubbing to reveal names required.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As long as the widget set is consistent in function, and placement, differing looks for differing apps are a good thing imho.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally I love the combination of Aqua, brushed metal, plastic and custom (garageband etc) that we have currently - it makes expose far more usable - no braille scrubbing to reveal names required.</p>
<p>As long as the widget set is consistent in function, and placement, differing looks for differing apps are a good thing imho.</p>
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		<title>By: Ankur</title>
		<link>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5386</link>
		<dc:creator>Ankur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lipidity.com/apple/apple-hig-still-relevant/#comment-5386</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;quick, make it consistent.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Oops! Thanks, I needed that.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;HUD windows - those should slowly replace regular Utility panels&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Possibly. Though I think if they start popping up everywhere, we could be in for a bit of a disaster, really. Thinking of Photoshop with HUD windows littered all over the place would be reason enough (for me, anyway) to use alternatives whenever possible.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;HUD often works well, but the level of consistency just isn't there. I think if we see a complete replacement of Aqua, it's likely that these (or some other type) of panels replace the existing ones.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;I do encourage people to use Aqua in their apps&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Absolutely. If every app had a custom UI, then there wouldn't be any point in having this thing called "Aqua" anyway. Using the classes provided by Apple means that they can easily change the look of the entire system by changing their core frameworks. So if they decide to go for "Azua" or something (ok, bad example), the Aqua apps would just fit the new look without any effort.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;The phrase “The HIG is dead” started with John Gruber’s talk at C4, but I think he didn’t really mean it in the way you say everyone mentions it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I agree, and that's why a few things needed to be cleared up. The vibe we currently get from quick scans or Google searches indicates a complete redundancy of the Apple HIG, when that's far from the case.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;One big point I remember from reading the HIG is that you should try to conform to standards when you can, but you can deviate when that is not possible or practical.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And that big point seems to me to be exactly what most people are doing. So there really shouldn't be that big a fuss.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;pointless departure from standards just makes software harder and more frustrating to learn and use.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I can relate to that. It is so frustrating sometimes when unexpected surprises pop up. You'd expect Ctrl-S to save, and Ctrl-Z to undo, and so it should remain.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>quick, make it consistent.</p></blockquote>
<p>Oops! Thanks, I needed that.</p>
<blockquote><p>HUD windows - those should slowly replace regular Utility panels</p></blockquote>
<p>Possibly. Though I think if they start popping up everywhere, we could be in for a bit of a disaster, really. Thinking of Photoshop with HUD windows littered all over the place would be reason enough (for me, anyway) to use alternatives whenever possible.</p>
<p>HUD often works well, but the level of consistency just isn&#8217;t there. I think if we see a complete replacement of Aqua, it&#8217;s likely that these (or some other type) of panels replace the existing ones.</p>
<blockquote><p>I do encourage people to use Aqua in their apps</p></blockquote>
<p>Absolutely. If every app had a custom UI, then there wouldn&#8217;t be any point in having this thing called &#8220;Aqua&#8221; anyway. Using the classes provided by Apple means that they can easily change the look of the entire system by changing their core frameworks. So if they decide to go for &#8220;Azua&#8221; or something (ok, bad example), the Aqua apps would just fit the new look without any effort.</p>
<blockquote><p>The phrase “The HIG is dead” started with John Gruber’s talk at C4, but I think he didn’t really mean it in the way you say everyone mentions it.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree, and that&#8217;s why a few things needed to be cleared up. The vibe we currently get from quick scans or Google searches indicates a complete redundancy of the Apple HIG, when that&#8217;s far from the case.</p>
<blockquote><p>One big point I remember from reading the HIG is that you should try to conform to standards when you can, but you can deviate when that is not possible or practical.</p></blockquote>
<p>And that big point seems to me to be exactly what most people are doing. So there really shouldn&#8217;t be that big a fuss.</p>
<blockquote><p>pointless departure from standards just makes software harder and more frustrating to learn and use.</p></blockquote>
<p>I can relate to that. It is so frustrating sometimes when unexpected surprises pop up. You&#8217;d expect Ctrl-S to save, and Ctrl-Z to undo, and so it should remain.</p>
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